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Poster: PropertyRob Date: Feb 19, 2007 6:27am
Forum: etree Subject: ratdog policy not followed OOPS

IT WILL GET PULL SOON DOWNLOAD NOW IF YOU WANT THIS RATDOG SHOW.show already removed great job LMA. thxs

This post was modified by PropertyRob on 2007-02-19 14:27:50

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Poster: Compsurfah_Too Date: Feb 19, 2007 7:22am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: ratdog policy not followed OOPS

Please clarify... Will post-2003 Ratdog be on LMA, or not?

Was the 2007 show simply one that slipped through??

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Poster: rtarturo Date: Feb 19, 2007 8:11am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: ratdog policy not followed OOPS

From the Ratdog website:

"Trading Audience Recordings

* RatDog allows and encourages the trading of audience recordings of its concerts provided that no money or tangible products are included. Internet downloads are permitted provided there is no charge for the service, even if such charge is only intended for the purpose of recovering the costs incurred to provide the recordings."

This suggests to me that audience recordings, even post 2003, are permissible. No?

Regards,
Arthur

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffTyler Date: Feb 19, 2007 10:35am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: ratdog policy not followed OOPS

We are going only off of what Peter Ammerall specifically asked for as policy for the Ratdog section of archive.org. Remember that sometimes bands have different or more restrictive limitations on what can be hosted here vs. what can be traded out and about in their normal trading circles.

If there is a change to their hosting request (It was in August 2004) we will change the policy here. We are not involved in the Ratdog trading scene, so if someone feels that peter has changed his mind on the topic, please have him e-mail the admins of the LMA at etreeATarchiveDOTorg and we will go from there. For now, all shows oct 1, 2003 and onward are not allowed on the LMA and should not be uploaded. If they make it through the cracks, they will be removed ASAP.


-----------
http://www.archive.org/details/Ratdog

Limited Flag: LimRange

**8/20/04 Ratdog policy update** -- NO shows on or after October 01, 2003 allowed on archive.org

Peter wrote:

"I would like to change the allowable trade policy in regards to the dates. Please do not allow any shows to be posted that are dated after September 2003. Please remove any shows that have been posted after that date. Please contact me if you have any questions.

Thanks,

Peter Ammerall
Ratdog"

Archive admin Tyler Huff clarified:

"just for clarification, you said: "Please do not allow any shows to be posted that are dated after September 2003." you mean that any show that occured on October 01, 2003 or later is NOT allowed on archive.org, correct? Oct 1 is the split date, right?"

Peter replied:

"> yes that is correct and thank you very much.
> Peter Ammerall
> Ratdog"
---------


Audio Taping

RatDog allows and encourages fans to record its concerts with their own gear. Soundboard patches will not be permitted, and RatDog's crew will not be able to assist you with your gear, cords, or strategies. In some cases, venue policy will preclude taping.

>Video Taping

RatDog does not allow fans to videotape its concerts.

>Still Photography

RatDog allows and encourages fans to take still photographs using consumer-model (non-professional) cameras. The use of flashes is highly discouraged as it is a distraction to the band and other fans and does not improve the quality of photos. In some cases, venue policy will preclude photography.

>Trading Audience Recordings

RatDog allows and encourages the trading of audience recordings of its concerts provided that no money or tangible products are included. Internet downloads are permitted provided there is no charge for the service, even if such charge is only intended for the purpose of recovering the costs incurred to provide the recordings.

>Trading Non-Official Soundboard Recordings

RatDog allows and encourages the trading of soundboard recordings of its concerts on and prior to September 6, 2003, and those not recorded for release in the Official CD Series. Internet downloads of concerts on and prior to September 6, 2003 are permitted provided there is no charge for the service, even if such charge is only intended for the purpose of recovering the costs incurred to provide the recordings.
Trading Official Soundboard Recordings

Trading and distribution of soundboard recordings of concerts on and after October 11, 2003 that were recorded for release in the Official CD Series are not allowed

------
Previously included info:

**same as Grateful Dead, note portion of policy that says "at our concerts and those of our individual members"

Message from Grateful Dead Productions, Inc. // Ice Nine

STATEMENT TO MP3 SITE OPERATORS:

The Grateful Dead and our managing organizations have long encouraged the purely
non-commercial exchange of music taped at our concerts and those of our individual members. That
a new medium of distribution has arisen - digital audio files being traded over the Internet - does not
change our policy in this regard.

Our stipulations regarding digital distribution are merely extensions of those long-standing
principles and they are as follows:

No commercial gain may be sought by websites offering digital files of our music, whether
through advertising, exploiting databases compiled from their traffic, or any other means.

All participants in such digital exchange acknowledge and respect the copyrights of the
performers, writers and publishers of the music.

This notice should be clearly posted on all sites engaged in this activity.

We reserve the ability to withdraw our sanction of non-commercial digital music should
circumstances arise that compromise our ability to protect and steward the integrity of our
work.

On August 9, 2004, band archivist Peter Ammerall gave the OK for Ratdog's inclusion on archive.org:


"Hi,

My name is Peter Ammerall and I am the archivist for Ratdog. Charlie Miller sent me your contact info. Our taping policy allows for older material prior to official release to be traded as long as no money is exchanged. We would love to be a part of archive.org. Please email me if you have any questions or need any more information from me.

Peter Ammerall

Ratdog"

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Poster: rastamon Date: Feb 19, 2007 11:01am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: ratdog policy not followed OOPS

not to worry, I'm burning my copy in my fireplace with some books also ;)
But it was the archive that let it slip thru the cracks.
Good work, whistleblowers!

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Poster: mtnjellyfish Date: Feb 19, 2007 1:39pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: ratdog policy not followed OOPS

Drats! Was so looking forward to a Cheesey Stephen.

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Poster: cousinkix1953 Date: Feb 22, 2007 1:10am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: ratdog policy not followed OOPS

There isn't too much interest in Bobby Weir's forbidden fruits on those other sites, which continue to post lots of Grateful Dead. I see a good variety of Jerry Garcia Band, some Grisman, David Nelson and the other family bands are there too.

And very little RatDog because few people care any more. We aren't missing very much either...

Does anybody else see the irony in this sentence?
"My name is Peter Ammerall and I am the archivist for Ratdog. Charlie Miller sent me your contact info."


This post was modified by cousinkix1953 on 2007-02-22 09:10:26

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Poster: smi2les Date: Feb 28, 2007 7:51pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: ratdog policy not followed OOPS

I'd like to hear 12-10-05 & 12-11-05 shows......the long beach show was fun, but after all the B.S. and the shows at the GAMH I have a hole refrigerator full of the dude that I won't seed.

$28.00 shot of Burbon ratdog'd me out.

Attachment: lydia.jpg

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or Staffgreenone Date: Feb 19, 2007 10:36am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: ratdog policy not followed OOPS

Bands often have differing policies for the LMA given the permanent nature of archiving here. The Ratdog collection page spells out the specific permissions that we have received regarding archiving of their shows (not just taping/trading):

http://www.archive.org/details.php?identifier=Ratdog



**8/20/04 Ratdog policy update** -- NO shows on or after October 01, 2003 allowed on archive.org

Peter wrote:

"I would like to change the allowable trade policy in regards to the dates. Please do not allow any shows to be posted that are dated after September 2003. Please remove any shows that have been posted after that date. Please contact me if you have any questions.

Thanks,

Peter Ammerall
Ratdog"

Archive admin Tyler Huff clarified:

"just for clarification, you said: "Please do not allow any shows to be posted that are dated after September 2003." you mean that any show that occured on October 01, 2003 or later is NOT allowed on archive.org, correct? Oct 1 is the split date, right?"

Peter replied:

"> yes that is correct and thank you very much.
> Peter Ammerall
> Ratdog"

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffTyler Date: Feb 19, 2007 12:30pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: ratdog policy not followed OOPS

Great minds think alike huh man? Simultaneous posting of the same info!

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or Staffgreenone Date: Feb 19, 2007 8:11am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: ratdog policy not followed OOPS

Shows later than 10-01-03 are not permitted on the LMA per the band's request, and should not be uploaded. If the band changes their mind, we'll gladly allow them, of course. :)